spk_0: 0:00
wait 20 questions with United Methodist clergy and laity focusing on the 50 years after merger and how it has affected African American congregations and their communities. Mining is Vincent Harris, your host for this podcast on. We will explore over the year conversations on yesterday's perspective on race, today's context of race, United Methodist churches and also visions for tomorrow we will have guests from all walks of life, and we hope that you will be able to join us in these conversations.
spk_1: 1:04
Well, we're here today tryingto figure out what's going on in the world. You know, there's a lot of conversation today about about race and how it impacts the world today. And United Methodists. We have a lot of history that deals with racism as well. So So I want to just kind of get the obvious question out First, do you believe racism remains the most challenging issue for society and the church today? Absolutely, without question, In what ways? Well, uh, having been a product off? Uh huh, Racism As a kid growing up in Charleston, South Carolina, I've seen some improvement. But as as one TV commentator says, it's now called Hidden Racism, And if you are a product of racism, as I grew up, you you can really see the effects of racism as it stands today. Okay. Okay. If you were looking at the United Methodist Church and you were gonna rate it on a scale to 1 to 10 how would you rate the church and its relationship to work with races? I would say six. It is, but I'm coming from a different perspective. Okay? I do see racism in my in my role as a united Methodist means up, Uh, you sticking the president? I see it often, and they try to escape the the overtures of racism. When, when I'm in their presence or when black folks and then present, they build it up so I can recognize that. But it's I see as an improvement compared to other denominations. Witness If you look at your Southern Baptists, we well above them in terms of addressing racism. Okay, so I, uh I know you probably know about the 1968 merger. Absolute. And so since merger, do you think that that that concept that structure has helped or hindered the potential for African American churches? I think. I think it helped. I really do. Okay, I really don't believe that, because if if I look at the birth of of not the birth, but going back to Richard Allen Okay, Richard Allen says when he left the Methodist Church. One thing that he said it's indicative of today He says that he said that I will always be a Methodist, so he didn't leave that apart from it. And I feel within my heart that, as as a united Methodist, regardless of the racism, I will always be a Methodist because of the the theology and my thinking. In that respect, I wonder, is we would be different today if it hadn't been for the civil rights. Do you think that that movement help make a difference? And if so, it made a difference. Do you think there's something that can happen today for us to have the same kind of energy that we had in the civil rights movement deal with racism? I think the civil rights movement caused a and momentum. I think it kind of brought things to the light, but I think that if it wasn't for it, the actions of our forefathers. I don't think we would have reached where we are now. Racism is still out there, but I think we have because of the civil rights movement there. There are things that would not have occurred in society today if it hadn't been for sure. Civil rights mature on with that? I think, too. When you talk about the movement, the struggle, Yes. What are some things you think that we, as African Americans, have actually put in our own way that have hindered us from moving for what are some things you think that have been obstacles from ourselves? Yes. Okay. Let me quit That too. Um, Hispanics or Yeah, what? When they when they do something, they do it collectively. Okay. Okay. Um well, now the hand, It's mine. It's mine. It's mine. And we don't in a larger sense collectively say OK, this is us together. You know, we we tend to want have our cake and eat it too, so to speak. And we don't bind as we should. Okay, Yeah. That's a real challenge for us. Yes, it is. You got a coach, but it's not something that is part of our natural heritage. because we have been people who believed in Yes, yes. And now it seems that we have either veered away. Or at least some of our connections with community are not as strong as they used to be. You know, a part of that is and I hate to say this it's education. OK, I really hate to say that, but it's a truism, because once a I've known some folks that I grew up with, and I'm a college graduate as well. But I knew some folks that I've grown up with and, um, their mentality has changed as a result of the mindset. Now, OK, OK, so I think that's that's a big problem. Okay, My mother used to say, Don't don't ever forgive from when you can't Yes. Yeah, and I think some of us have. That's that's so true. And a lot of people don't want Thio face that fact absolutely hard factor face, Yes, when you're in that place in relationship with the church, I think one of things that I would hope would happen is that now that we do have education, now that we have become people in these positions that are able to kind of influence places that Yeah, with our church is on the decline right now. Most churches, even the angle churches in decline. But how do you know?
spk_0: 7:37
What would you
spk_1: 7:37
propose to be? Maybe a first step that could help redirect this decline from from, you know, worship attendance, community connections, developing new leaders. It just seems like way came to a point in the apex. And now we're really kind of just is it is something that you think we could do something we could actually connect with. Help people be more energized for the future. In terms of the church is in
spk_0: 8:07
terms of the church,
spk_1: 8:08
in particular of the black church. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think it goes back to the community at large. When we talk about the church, Sometimes we forget our surroundings and that that's to me. That's that's critical to the success of any church, if you can remember back when I came up, you know, the church was my community. I lived in the community that I could walk maybe, uh, less than a block. My church was there. I had a sense of ownership. If you will because the church was there. So I think if we get back to community and realize that that have a great impact on the church at large, then I think we may be on the right road. Um, this is a question that that is more timing, I guess about how we are ended the nomination in dealing with, you know, tryingto regrow the church, trying to advance the church and then stop the climb. In some ways, the other conversations that are going on in this church today absolutely particularly the conversation on sexuality Do you think that impacts our church in any way with the black church in any way? It takes away from, uh, the the real issue. And I don't want to say that those things are not important. But I think that the issue of race is just as important as those things that were way talk about the community and and all those things. I think they're important. But the thing that that I struggle with is our place at the table, and I don't see that as a I don't see that as an urgency in urgent moment in the life of the church. Okay. Putting up folks at the table. I'm here at BMC are black Methodist Church renewal for the first time in a number of years. Okay, so I'm trying to get also some gleanings of where BMC Arias and I don't know what your relationship is or has been. Do you have any idea what the plan is for moving forward and strengthening black churches through BMC ours and something that's going on, I could tell you that I'm proud. I stand here today, proud of what I've seen so far, especially without younger folks. Okay, Uh, these folks, these young folks are engaged in ministry. They engaged in the church and they want to see a change. And to me, that's that builds momentum because I'm at an age now that there's I could do very little. Now that I have done in the past, I'm anxious to see what type of programs that they come up with. Two bring up leaders in the United Methodist Rations. So you've been in the church and, you know, like most of us, we have set appears that we kind of walked with through our church life. So through your generation. You know what? What are some of the things that you would offer that could develop better relationships with them in order to give people who are not in church a sense of authenticity in their relationships? Because we usually connect with people 10 years older, 10 years younger. That group that you're with, How do you best connect with them on the church being the church, especially those who are outside the church and on those who were in the church who maybe have gotten a little stale? How would you see yourself as a as a catalyst on advocate in that place? Okay. If I in my response, I want to clarify some. Sure. Are we talking about my sense of what the church looked like today with me being a partner? Yes. Okay, well, there's nothing wrong with old old style thinking, and I think that has some value. But as a one has been there, done that. I try to communicate with the younger generation and to kind of partner with him because, you know, I think it has to be when we talk about mentor, it has to be bilateral. Yes, and there's gotta be. There's there's something out there they can offer the church, and there's something that I can offer them, as as we leave this effort. So I think it's bilateral, and I'm constantly not struggling with that. I'm constantly dealing with that in a relationship without, you know, folks. Sure. Well, Henry, I really appreciate your time. Is it anything that I really didn't ask you that you might want to share in relationship to how we move forward in this issue of race relations? ATT. This point in time in our church, it's a question. As you said, we don't talk about it a lot way, kind of hear about it on Don't engage a lot. So is there something that you wanna hear one of things I'd like to say that as as a F ate as a United Methodist member, I think we need to look beyond the walls of the church. Uh, we've got brothers in the Wesleyan persuasion. That's the Amy See Amy's Amy Designs, and I think that we need to establish. I know we have got the World Methodist Council. We need to establish your relationship with them to talk about race relations because they're the sea to me, they're the sea. And I think that we need to establish some kind of relationship so we could bring to the tables some of the
spk_0: 14:03
concerns Thio.