spk_0: 0:00
wait 20 questions with United Methodist clergy and laity focusing on the 50 years after merger and how it has affected African American congregations and their communities. Mining is Vincent Harris, your host for this podcast on. We will explore over the year conversations on yesterday's perspective on race, today's context of race and United Methodist churches and also visions for tomorrow we will have guests from all walks of life, and we hope that you will be able to join us in these conversations. We are here today still talking about racism, churches, Shayla and hear from Philadelphia. They close e, and they here to kind of walk through some of the challenging questions that we have for all of our folks today. Let's talk about Do you believe races challenging issue for the church society today? I certainly believe it does, and I believe it is is one of the most challenging things in our society with search as well. I don't think racism ever went away. I think right now I think it's just become more prevalent, and right now we're seeing it really be talked about probably more openly than it was of most recent years. It's a challenge number one, because the church is trying to find its position concerning racism while also trying to understand that racism exists even in itself in the church. Nothing. That's something that's difficult for the church to have come to grips to. So now that it's out there now that everyone knows that it still exists, not everyone know that it's even in the church. What do we do about it?
spk_1: 2:24
And I I believe it is challenging also because again, as Eric stated, you know, the church is trying to find its position on what do we say, what we do about it. Church has been silent on many things. It's like we went through that era of the civil rights movement and the church had a voice in the church, was the pillar was the place where the community and people went and, you know, talked openly about things. But somewhere along the line, I would say in the eighties people got comfortable and the church was no longer that pillar place, and it became more political than became church and, you know, for the community, so it's it's definitely something that is a challenge. People to speak up today. You bring up racism in the pulpit and you know we'll start to cringe a little bit because it's not that I feel good. Make me happy. I want to shout, you know, message. And it's like these are the things that we have to face.
spk_0: 3:19
Yeah, challenge. I think, too, that time of civil rights is that we have a common cause. Do you think that the church's history, especially involvement there's something son Wellspring folks coming forward to help motivate this generation to do some of the same kind of work that was done as a result of civilized was just something out there Or you know, of anything that pressing us forward that that way civil rights, the past, I think, particularly with our younger generations. And, you know, as we look at who are the front runners of tackling racism, think one of the things that happens today is that the groups evolved so much. Whatever they're fighting for, whatever the causes, they evolve so much. So I don't think there is one particular group who was kind of leading the way towards attacking racism. But But I think especially, you know, when we look at the times that we're in, you know, were you know, everything social media, you know, everything is technology. So I think those are the different platforms where groups form and then they tackle a particular situation more than the entire movement. Unlike the civil rights movement, where there are groups who came together and consistently fought for there, I think they're different cycles in different situations, and I think racism kind of is a part of all of the other issues they're going. So I think that's the challenge, a taste with our younger generations being front runners in today's racism.
spk_1: 5:22
And I mean, not only that, there's also the challenge with that because you have the younger generations where everything is done mostly on social media. There is also a generation that's looking at, you know, that need to have that conversation about race and, you know, face that issues and those organizations. But they're not on social media. So there's again that contention between those generations, and it's like if we would just come together and realize that we're all fighting for the same cause in the same thing as opposed to just one issue, then it would be it would be better handled. But again, we have issues amongst ourselves, and it's like here we are fighting amongst ourselves more than we are, um, resolving or coming to a consensus of how to resolve the issues of race and everything else that's going on as a community.
spk_0: 6:16
Um, it's interesting when you talk about the generational differences. I think that's one of the things that I want to try to figure out. And I think the church needs to try at least figure out it's possible in this place. We're sort of that kind of responses we get. I really gotten concert in a place that you relate to those folks out there. Boomers are very nexus wise, and so so in your experience. What would be a way to connect with people that are Endo's, especially with generations of people after the civil rights Those were in this particular day have experienced violence to African Americans and how the identity of right people has been leading society. Someone's how do we connect with people and have the church constant, you know, involvement how they before or at least understand what they are and they have value. I think that's exactly it is to understand who each other are and then tow have value. And I think that that's the piece that creates the distrust between the generations. Do we trust that the generations are really going to pick up the mantle and really going to fight racism, fight oppression like suppression? But because it doesn't look the way it looked back during the civil rights movement, there's a There's a lack of confidence that generations are still going to combat racism. So I think what has to start is you know, those generations off. Those times have to have the open conversations about what happened, what it calls. But then, to hear the generations of the younger generations into here, what does this look like to you? What does it mean to you? Do we Do you feel the same as we felt? And to understand that there are different views with the different generations and then to go from there to figure out how do we combat it's still here? The issue is still here, but to allow those the younger generations now to go about combating it based upon your experience is
spk_1: 8:35
not only that we have the value that that we're value. It means a lot because the older generations there, there, there is that lack of trust of can they can they care? Can the younger generation carry no mantle? Can they, you know, address these things? But not only that. What do they know? Like, you know, you get some thinking. I will. What do they know about racism, This senator? So again, it's about sharing our stories together, sharing our experiences, but not only that valuing. You know what what each other have to say. But if we don't take time to sit down and listen to each other toe value one another and understand, then how can we expect another race or or the main line or race to value us as a people when we don't even value one another in terms of our own experiences? So that has a large a large thing to do with it as well, especially in the church.
spk_0: 9:33
Speaking in terms of the church in the United Methodist Church, in particular way, are 8%. I heard that US and other people call it 8%. So are the places that you think that way have gotten in our way Put obstacles in her own way, you know, trying to deal with our stuff. But way have built. So what? What there is what possible? I tried to kind of reach this place. Better race relations relations can think of anything that kind of just kind of moving. But then we just like
spk_1: 10:26
just that, um are our own perceptions is that I would think is the barrier that stands between us, you know, just this false sense of, you know, where our churches, Okay, we're all right. We're, you know, we're we're financially fit and all right, you know? But our own perceptions of thing is what is the main barrier that keeps us from moving forward to do anything? Um, not only that, just us being stuck on our own, our own pride or our own egos And, you know, not necessarily laying ourselves aside like we're supposed to and allowing God to do the work and allowing God to truly use us to do ministry and converse, converse and connect with one another the way that we should so way stand in our own way. along with just being stuck in the way we do things. This is how we do it. This is how we've done it. This is how we will continue to do it. But what worked 30 years ago, isn't it working today? What worked five years ago isn't gonna work today. So we have to understand that way. Have to be open to hearing and seeing how to do things in better ways and not stand so much in the way of ourselves.
spk_0: 11:44
I think also one of the things that question is, if we except progress being made, uh, as black people in a predominantly white denomination do we look and say You know what they're trying or you know what? This is a move in the right direction. I think sometimes we like to stay in the cycle of not going anywhere because we identify so much with the struggle that's comfortable for us. And what would that feel like? What would that look like if we were to free ourselves of the struggle on? I think that's a cycle that we get stuck in
spk_1: 12:24
my cardinal malice. E is oppression. And if if we're not being oppressed in some kind of way. It's We don't know how to function.
spk_0: 12:33
Yeah, I think so. You know, I like to fight. I can't fight the enemy with Lydia is fighting right? Right, Because fighting is these five easy pieces. Hard, Absolutely. Conciliation is hard working toward a better. So, yeah, I am, You know, look at the last 15 merger. I was 10. I'm 60. It's what about my point is, um this is that over the last 15 years for next, this is in your lifetime. You were raped United Methodist Church today. Your ratings were on that scale. Really? Right, Mitt? Maybe a five, maybe a four. I think we talked about the issue of race. I think we look at cross cultural appointments as the answer to race. Um, but but I don't know if that's good movie. We're really getting to the core of races.
spk_1: 14:03
Yeah, I'd say a three or four. You know, I think we bring it up. That's as far as it goes. You know, you mentioned it like, yes, we need to, you know, tackle the issue of race. Oh, yes. We need to do something to make our relationship better with other races. We need to be a diverse church, a diverse denomination where we are. We are connection A ll. But as far as it goes, our actions doesn't show anything otherwise. And it's it's proven in in the amount of African American or minority clergy that you have, you know, coming through. Why is it so little of them coming through? Why's it so much harder for people of color to get through a process than it is for those who are not? Why are things different or done differently or accept it? You know, like you know, in terms of what what the credentials are that some people have who are not of color. But yet when somebody of color may have more credentials than somebody who's not, and maybe missing one thing Or, you know, here you go. They don't get there or it's they have to do something extra. We always have to do something more. So we're always constantly having to prove ourselves over and over again. So, yeah.
spk_0: 15:30
Oh, Theis, Unfinished business is probably gonna be the Congress. Is is there anything you wanna add today that I didn't share with sheer podcast?
spk_1: 15:44
just for us to really open and listen to the younger generations they're watching, they're watching in there listening to all of those before them. And a lot of people are under the impression like, Oh, we got to get the millennials, We got it. You know, he do things in the millions, but millennials, they're older now. Their best. That's the generation. Yes, because they'll be concerned about. But there's a generation after them that are really going through a lot right now and paying attention, and nobody's really listening or paying attention to them. So we have to make room to listen to them and not make the same mistake that we made with the millennials with those generations that are younger than the millennial
spk_0: 16:25
generation. And I would just say along with that again, to understand that began while racism is still present, as it always was, to understand that there's a a different view and different perspective and different approach based upon experience with the different generations and how they deal with racism, out a combat racism. So I think, just to be open minded for everyone to speak together, but also for everyone to put it on the table to understand what everybody's experiences and as we look towards the younger generations, to move the church and society together and to speak about from different perspectives to understand that their view and their experience is gonna be much different. But it doesn't mean that we all have a common goal to combat racism. Well, I appreciate your time compensation. You're back. Look for maybe.