spk_0: 0:00
wait 20 questions with United Methodist clergy and laity focusing on the 50 years after merger and how it has affected African American congregations and their communities. Mining is events and Harris, your host for this podcast on. We will explore over the year conversations on yesterday's perspective on race, today's context of race, United Methodist churches and also visions for tomorrow we will have guests from all walks of life, and we hope that you will be able to join us in these conversations.
spk_1: 1:05
Talking about race The old language was Larry. That this is the church is unfinished business races. So I just wanted to get you here today and legend came and grateful for you taking time out to share with us on. I want to talk about race and racism and also some other challenges for the church. But first of all, the obvious question. You believe that race is steel in this context society most challenging issue for for the church and societies will
spk_0: 1:38
definitely do think racism is still a huge challenge, especially not our current political climate. Racism. It's always been there, but people have been emboldened. Thio begin again to rear their head and speak their true feelings. But I definitely think it is something that is definitely still a society. And we've not deal with it in this country.
spk_1: 2:01
Right? Right. Right. So So in the church, we've had this. This movement, I guess of the merger since 1968. Dealt with some of the issues. But if you're gonna rate our work with race relations in the United Methodist Church on this feel of 1 to 10 one being the worst, where would you kind of land? In that place?
spk_0: 2:24
I would say Probably a four. Okay. You know, any reason why? You know, I think we and I wasn't around for the murder. Of course I'll be for what? I'm almost 42. And so I was not here in 1968. But I think we have tried Thio to make strides. I just don't think we have quite gotten there yet, huh? And in the context where I am, we have churches that are multicultural, multi ethnic. But we still struggle even as we try our best. Make the kingdom backing them. Come on, Earth look like a reality here on earth, as it isn't happened
spk_1: 3:03
sure, sure, I don't know about where you are in your conference, but I know that the African American churches are part of sort of a network, and they kind of work together through the years and cooperation Daniel conferences. Do you think that as far as African American churches in the merger, what you know about the merger on what you know about your conference is well, for the years you've been in the church? Has the relationship been helped or hindered by having I sold United Methodist Ernie because that doesn't make it better, or we'll be in a better place, possibly reward and United Methodist Church, kind of some of the other African churches aftermath of Episcopal see that kind of thing?
spk_0: 3:52
I think I would say both, and it's hard to say that it's either one of the other. I think sometimes we've lost some of our cultural, our blackness, a CZ we've integrated into the United Methodist Church in my lifetime. We've always been integrated, but I just think about when I come to ah Black Methodist gathering or in a black church, that spirit of black worship that that has been from slavery. We've lost some of those roots I think we have. I would say some of the, you know, like general commissioner, religion and race started to make sure that we were in all levels life of the church. And I think we are in all levels of life of the church, probably even more than our population in the church. But I think sometimes we have become complacent because we see ourselves in those positions and we've lost the fight for the struggle that is ahead on sometimes. Don't that do not challenge actual society?
spk_1: 4:55
Yeah, I think one of the challenges becomes, You know, how we see ourselves on whether or not we are involved in forward on not being hindered by issues and challenges. One of the questions is about obstacles. You know, sometimes we get in our own way. What are some of those things you think that we've done this African Americans, that we've been in our own way? That kind of hinders our progress toward better relations, not only with our own churches, with those outside our races?
spk_0: 5:27
I think we saw operate in 1968. It's a big thing for May. We are not willing to change. I think we can still be an effective force for change and for good because of our message on what we have to offer. But we have got to figure out new ways, new models in which to operate in which to function. We've gotta let some of the old things go and die s o the new newness and new life can emerge. And we've also got the Colts of a leadership. Like I remember when I started in the professional capacity more than almost 20 years ago, I was the young one in the room at 42. I'm still the young one in the room. And so, uh, what do we do? Who we bring him along with us in the life of the church and in society.
spk_1: 6:15
That question about how in 60 a part of 68 the civil rights movement gave impetus. You really gave some some some real strong motivation on energy to the church and its relationship to community on facing this whole issue of race. Is there anything today any any structure in any organization that you think of that would equal that movement that could bring some some energy motivation to our churches today that they would see that this is an opportunity to launch from this place. Even though we're not where we would have been, where were we could be in a better place.
spk_0: 6:58
I see things like black lives, matter, movement, other secular movements. And some of those folks are not involved in the church, even in my own Sacramento community, some of our black, younger black leadership and black leadership, but not necessarily church folks. And so I see an opportunity for us to walk alongside with them to impact positive change and maybe even make some disciples along the way. But it's the models I think are going to look different than what, uh, the way they looked in 1968 and
spk_1: 7:28
so generationally. It's really about walking along with those who are considered your peers and discerning sort of this cultural intelligence kind of getting to know the people that you're living with and walking with them to be a part of something that's going to be different than what you know. We read in the history books what we hear, people who's been out walking back to the studio was out. Welcome back. But that's a whole different environment now that people are in that place and those kinds of movements aren't really a part of the church. But as you said, people are not injured with their part of movement movements. And I just a question of how did those movements? And I think I answered it help us to kind of get more people involved in the authentic in those relationships so that people don't see the churches. Yeah, so? So I think that that would be something that will be helpful for us to consider forward. One of the challenges to that I've asked some other people about is that this president conversation on human sexuality and how or if it doesn't not even impacted the church. But do you see that conversation the broader church is talking about? It is an impact of the black church in, you know,
spk_0: 8:49
I think, sure does. It might actually force us to talk about human sexuality because there's something that we, uh, tiptoe around and avoid, like the plague, and so I think it will cause us to have to address it. But like even for the larger church, I think is we talk about young people. I think it's some of those. Some of the conversations we have in the church are not issues to young people. And so how do we maneuver those into those spaces and have those conversations?
spk_1: 9:18
I think because race has been in the past, you know, on issue that was kind of brought to the forefront. And we have these conversations that go on now. I was human sexuality, which not putting one above the other, but knowing that physicians of race are really a constant nation that we have to deal with. But also we're living in a society that has changed. Yeah, and those changes have to be acknowledged and work through in the context of the church in order to get people connected. Yeah, rather than having them separate and not building any any bridges. Uh, I haven't been to BMC guard a long time, but I'm here now. And one of the questions that I had for for being here is that you know, racism back in the days I say they call BMC are gadflies. That was the word that was used agitated. Do you see that still being part of the billions environment of being here or has it kind of become silent on these issues of racial justice?
spk_0: 10:24
But I think it has become silent. We're not agitating. We're not agitating at all. We come together once a year. But in the meantime, throughout the rest of the year, when when things shake down in our society were not the voice that people come to maybe not United Methodist New Service or those types of circles. People will come to us, ask our opinion or or what we're doing about X, Y and Z. But as societally, I don't think we are a force to be reckoned with because I look, I look at the elders in the room now that they were forced to be reckoned with. Andi. I think now it's just not Is that then that's a mate.
spk_1: 11:03
Yeah, it is not. We've been that looted, I think a number of ways. But I think again, going back to the obstacles that something some of those are our self inflicted on others are heard this morning. About 90% of 8% on so way have to live in a realistic place that we are a minority in a great majority. And how do we had and change the culture and the conversation about race as as people who I have done it before? I think that's what
spk_0: 11:40
I live in California. And so, like, even the neighborhood I live in is a diverse neighborhood filled with immigrants. I'm an adjunct professor and my class probably half immigrants from all around the world. And so that's a different conversation, even his relation racism and how we're going to co exist and interact together and how we're gonna build coalitions together. Uh, I think there have to be coalitions now. It can't just be black folk are Latino Focus. We've got to all come together across these lines as we face the same appeal battles. I think we've been here the longest because we were brought here, huh? At the beginning of the star of this country, we built this country, but there are other folks are here now to have some of the same struggles and same issues, and we've got to figure out how Thio build coalitions is anything I kind
spk_1: 12:33
of run out of questions without anything that you would like to share before we close out today.
spk_0: 12:40
So I just think there's hope there is hope. I always move in the space of hoping. So, uh, I think that we can be a voice to be reckoned with in society and we can start to change the course. We've just got to do some things differently. We gotta let some things die s o the new life comes forward, But I believe in Jesus the Risen Christ. So there is always hope that we can create change and create a better world for the good.
spk_1: 13:05
Well, I thank you for for your time. Great conversation. I've been known for a while. Working Marcin takes is around your phone. Yeah, I really appreciate the world. I look forward. Maybe sometime down the road when we started doing support, you'll come back and have a
spk_0: 13:27
thank you would be glad to. Thanks a lot for you.