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wait 20 questions with United Methodist clergy and laity focusing on the 50 years after merger and how it has affected African American congregations and their communities. Mining is Vincent Harris, your host for this podcast on. We will explore over the year conversations on yesterday's perspective on race, today's context of race and United Methodist churches and also visions for tomorrow we will have guests from all walks of life, and we hope that you will be able to join us in these conversations. Way have Gary Henderson, executive with United Methodist Communications and has been working, and you have a method of search for years and understand some of the challenges that we have in the past. Some of the current issues that we face in the church and also is a visionary in the church as well. Today we're still talking about racism. The old statement was that this church is unfinished business, and Gary is gonna share was today some of the insides he has on this and glad to having today Gary on the podcast
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band to be here.
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The obvious question, I think for many of us is Do we still believe that racism remains the most challenging or the challenging issue for the church and society to address today.
spk_1: 1:54
In short, yes, for me to say Maur, just look at the culture right now. I find myself even in the workplace. In almost every decision, I end up having to evaluate it and look at it through the lens of race. Even simple things are often misunderstood, not understood culturally. And sometimes it just kind of creeps up on me and I say, Wow, there goes the elephants of race again in the room. The political climate in the United States hasn't helped us at all. What we see on Pennsylvania Avenue, creeping all across the country into the church, it is a magnifying
spk_0: 2:46
yeah, that I think is important to acknowledge for us today in the church. We can't separate our relationship from society in the church. So we do have to understand that this is a reality for us in the United Methodist Church. We have for years talked about how we deal with racism over these last 50 years. Since merger. If you want to rape the church on a scale of 1 to 10 where would you rate the United Methodist Church on this, dealing with racism and race relations
spk_1: 3:19
on a scale of 1 to 10 cents a merger. On the optimistic side, I would give the United Methodist Church of Seven maybe a seven plus, and by using that number, I would say, Obviously, there have been great strides in 50 years in the church and in society in general. That being said there still so much more to do. Iger whip in Jackson, Mississippi I'm a child of the sixties and seventies. If what I see happening in the culture right now and even in the church on many levels is a repeat of scenarios and messages that I grew up with having to overcome, and they're being replayed for me, that's more than a little bit surprising. But when I begin to be retrospective around the big picture, I should not be surprised.
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Well, the church merged, and we began to work collaboratively. And do you think that that merger has hindered or has has helped and black churches reaching their their potential? Well, we talked
spk_1: 4:41
about merger in the church. It often reminds me of also the notion of integration in public schools and I'm of that first generation of African Americans who graduated from predominantly mixed school environments. In fact, I'm a pioneer class out of Jackson, Mississippi. Integration has not been, uh, what I think people dreamed and hoped it would be. Neither do I think merger has been with people dreamed and hoped it would be. It neither solved the problem, provided the answers that I think well intentioned people but black and white were hopeful of what I have seen as the byproduct of merger, particularly in the African American community, has been a growing dependency upon others. When I say overs, I mean maybe real plain meaning white folk. We have tended Maura, Maura, that look of places for, uh, resource is that in a prior day, even prior to the merger, we would look first to ourselves because that was the only place for us to look. But now we have other options, and I think there's so many other options. Help have hindered the spirit of independency are entrepreneurial spirit. Our ability to believe that we can do even with the meager resource is
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okay. Okay. Yeah, I think you like. We have made some advances and I think that the challenge becomes what happens with what we've been able to do and really use that as a stair step into a different place. We have been hindered in ways. What I think. We've also been helped. Bye bye that that connection Most of our churches are in decline, closing our clothes, speaking both of churches in the Anglo on African American community, but in particular for African American churches. A CZ. You've seen the church in a broader perspective. What do you think that we can do? What, What? What can we attempt to do to turn this tie on? Not just declined an average worship attendance, but decline in the general sense of the church and its relationship to people in the world.
spk_1: 7:20
That is a really tough, big question. But if I hone in simply on the poor shitting around what could be done in the African American church, I would point the finger at us in the church and say a lot of change needs to happen. I go to many places in the African American community when I enter the door on Sunday morning. It's like I stepped back in time about 40 years, and there's a generation of folk in America now who don't want to step back in time. But they want to embrace the current day. I think I think technology is a beautiful thing. I think sometimes it's overused in terms of Sunday worship, but it is a very useful tool, and I believe that we have a long way to go to adapt, to use. The current resource is that are available. The other thing in the African American community, and probably not just true in the African American community is that those of us who have been around a long time in leadership, more Maur need to relinquish power, relinquish authority, understand that the church is in good hands, and then there are generations of young people who can be trusted. They won't do things the way that we have done them, while the way things that always been done. That's a good thing. But we need to trust that hopefully we have put on deposit in these generations enough good word that that word will spring up into really vital congregations and vital fruit and useful lives for them and for us
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as well. Yeah, Yeah, I appreciate Appreciate that. I I know that sometimes we get on our own way we get in our own way. Is there, um, something that you can think of that that really causes us to be obstacles to our own progress Other than you know, you talked about how we step back in time. But But, you know, sometimes it's like way. Want to blame others import fingers. But But sometimes we're in our own way. Where have you seen that hat?
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I think the root of being in our own way is related to not being self aware. I think that often we believe we're better than we are. Often we believe that there is more exciting things going on. Let's say in the congregation, then really are. And I think we need to be open to self critique, open to introspection. Open Thio here I would even say the word of the Lord to us and for us to live differently and to somehow be different and to really be open to the voices around us. And really Paul's around quick judgment of difference and Maur Paul's around evaluation, maybe around the utility are the usefulness of new ideas, new people, new ways of doing things. But to go back to where I started, I think we need a growing self awareness that will help us a lot.
spk_0: 10:56
I'm gonna kind of see where I'm gonna go in the next section of this thing. This interview also the time that I'm gonna spend today. But I really do appreciate your time today. Your answer. The questions are important, I think, for the life of the church as well. I'm just glad you stopped by to talk to us for you'll, uh, You'll talk to us again, I'm sure sometime.
spk_1: 11:21
Absolutely. Vincent, any time you can call.
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Thank you so much for being with.